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Boo
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Post To all that are seeing this:
Wiifuse is dead. Sadly the equation of posters and threads are out of wack. I have returned. Over the years of me growing up and surfing the web have found me websites I visit. To those that still want to check on me, this is my favorite website:

http://www.debate.org


I see DW post every 2-3 days in his thread in the chat forum, and I don't really think anyone else is as active or impactful as him.


Looking back at the Flame War, I think it was unwise to delete the RP forum. ExiledBlacky and Charmy have over stayed their welcome. Both users provoked flame wars in their own way. Everyone else only spread them, myself included. If anyone wants to create a new forum, they can PM via the website above to alert me:

http://www.debate.org/FrackJack/FrackJack

Here my advice may fall on deaf ears, but none the less:

There is a golden ratio of mods and users. Depending on the number of threads/posts/forums, there should not be a overbearing mod base. Let's pretend there is a forum with 20 users. 18 of these are daily users. Threads are created at a 5 a day rate, and posts are in a 70-140 rate. That is about ~4-7 posts-per-user a day. If the mods are not commies about rules, there should be no problem with 2 mods out of 20. No mod should be gone from the website. If they do, they lose their modship intill they get back. Mods are not immune to rules.

Wiifuse not obeying this law of the internet was a factor to why it is dead. Missing mods. Too many mods. Missing leadership. Think. When did the worse of the flame war happen? When SirVenom was gone. SV had shoot to do. That is his life. But there was no replacement. Everyone else was too passive.

I could on, but I'll post more later.

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:09 am
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
The forum is really out-of-date and unadvertised, and members are disappearing at a normal rate (people move on with life) with no replacements. It's not really about growth anymore so much as communication among old friends.

I would love to see the forum boom again, but I don't think we can make it happen without money.

I will address the specific points when I am able.

(Brace yourselves, I might go deep into the forgotten and hidden lore of the history of the forum.)

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:07 am
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
WeeGee wrote:
Wiifuse is dead. Sadly the equation of posters and threads are out of wack. I have returned.

I see DW post every 2-3 days in his thread in the chat forum, and I don't really think anyone else is as active or impactful as him.

Wiifuse not obeying this law of the internet was a factor to why it is dead. Missing mods. Too many mods. Missing leadership.


I agree that the posts are minimal, but I think many are just staying lurkers and not responding to threads. It's hard to carry a discussion when no one responds or adds to the discussion. I consider myself to be a somewhat active poster. I was much more active when there were a lot more discussions ongoing. I think the main core active members has been on the decline and we haven't gotten replacements for those former active members.

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:49 am
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
Gamer Greg wrote:
WeeGee wrote:
Wiifuse is dead. Sadly the equation of posters and threads are out of wack. I have returned.

I see DW post every 2-3 days in his thread in the chat forum, and I don't really think anyone else is as active or impactful as him.

Wiifuse not obeying this law of the internet was a factor to why it is dead. Missing mods. Too many mods. Missing leadership.


I agree that the posts are minimal, but I think many are just staying lurkers and not responding to threads. It's hard to carry a discussion when no one responds or adds to the discussion. I consider myself to be a somewhat active poster. I was much more active when there were a lot more discussions ongoing. I think the main core active members has been on the decline and we haven't gotten replacements for those former active members.



Yup. We need to create more threads. I could get on that.

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:56 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
Yea I try to create topics too from time to time. Thing is, the forum isn't really advertised. And we wouldn't want to advertise it when it's empty like this. So I'm not sure what to do. I won't abandon this place, it's just a matter of jump starting it somehow. We don't need a large community, but a steady one.

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:38 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
DarkWish wrote:
Yea I try to create topics too from time to time. Thing is, the forum isn't really advertised. And we wouldn't want to advertise it when it's empty like this. So I'm not sure what to do. I won't abandon this place, it's just a matter of jump starting it somehow. We don't need a large community, but a steady one.


Exactly. In it's golden years when I was here, there was 9 users.

Question: Who was that kid who played online Mario Kart? Name was like "Merzera"? Something with a "M".

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:44 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
WeeGee wrote:
DarkWish wrote:
Yea I try to create topics too from time to time. Thing is, the forum isn't really advertised. And we wouldn't want to advertise it when it's empty like this. So I'm not sure what to do. I won't abandon this place, it's just a matter of jump starting it somehow. We don't need a large community, but a steady one.


Exactly. In it's golden years when I was here, there was 9 users.

Question: Who was that kid who played online Mario Kart? Name was like "Merzera"? Something with a "M".

I have no idea.

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:49 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
DarkWish wrote:
WeeGee wrote:
DarkWish wrote:
Yea I try to create topics too from time to time. Thing is, the forum isn't really advertised. And we wouldn't want to advertise it when it's empty like this. So I'm not sure what to do. I won't abandon this place, it's just a matter of jump starting it somehow. We don't need a large community, but a steady one.


Exactly. In it's golden years when I was here, there was 9 users.

Question: Who was that kid who played online Mario Kart? Name was like "Merzera"? Something with a "M".

I have no idea.


Bear in mind I am murdering his name. Wait I have a idea.

http://web.archive.org/

EDIT: Cant find it. Does anyone perchance have the old forums with them?

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:53 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
I am going to be very open in this post. I hope I don't come to regret it... but I think this is very interesting history (to me, anyway), and it's a shame to keep it all under wraps forever.

Quote:
I see DW post every 2-3 days in his thread in the chat forum, and I don't really think anyone else is as active or impactful as him.


I truly admire his dedication.

Quote:
Looking back at the Flame War, I think it was unwise to delete the RP forum.


I don't think anything could have helped the RP forum. WiiFuse grew during its existence, but it was becoming something different altogether, something that alienated the original userbase and fostered drama. Most of the new members did not take place in the community outside of the RP forum, and increasingly became a social and political clique. Anyone who would dare damage the Almighty Story Line would draw fire from all sides. It's pathetic, but disputes over a story-telling game was tearing the community to pieces.

Quote:
ExiledBlacky and Charmy have over stayed their welcome. Both users provoked flame wars in their own way. Everyone else only spread them, myself included.


Hmmmm.... let's talk about EB, first. And I'll be honest. And he's probably reading this right now (with "now" being defined as the time when he is browsing the forum and seeing this). Hi!

EB told me numerous times that I should ban him. Honestly, he may have been right. But, I could never do that for a few reasons.

First, I like the guy. I drew some fire from him early on, but I had resolved never to punish a member for flaming me personally. Eventually, I saw him as a second opinion, a contrast and well-needed counterbalance to the extreme optimism of many members. He was, in my mind, necessary for diversity of opinion and character. I believe that he made the forum more attractive to members like (for example) Schmete, and that he promoted thought and productive discussion more often than destructive flame wars. Plenty of people did not like him at all, but plenty of regular members, the ones who had been around for a while, did like him.

So, by keeping ExiledBlacky, I think we were able to hold on to our regular userbase for longer than we otherwise could have. On the other hand, we probably lost plenty of new members. It was a trade-off, one of debatable merit. It all depends on what kind of community we wanted.

Now, Charmy. Touchy subject. This is where we get to the forgotten lore I mentioned.

I said that I like EB. I also like Charmy. I can not quite as easily justify not having banned him, seeing that he was consciously trying to be banned, as well as creating sock-puppet accounts to stir discord (yeah, I know about that... you need to be careful with your proxies). The fact that he was not banned, simply put, was a direct result of my sentimentality and nostalgia. If you like, you can skip all the following paragraphs, interesting though they might be, because they are all wrapped up in this one.

Maybe you remember, or maybe not, that Charmy was once an administrator. That team—Charmy, QueenZelda, and myself—was completely and utterly dysfunctional. QueenZelda and Charmy (and I would argue myself as well) were great people, and originally good friends. But, over time it became increasingly clear that they could not work as a team. No one on the forum saw the terrible arguments that went on in the admin forum (the very existence of which I insisted on keeping secret for various reasons... a policy that helped all Hell in breaking loose when the forums broke and various posts from that forum became visible). I was tasked with a delicate balancing act; both of them respected me, and I had to somehow maintain this respect so that I could act as mediator. More on this "respect" issue later...

Anyway, the administration was completely broken long before the rest of the forum realized it. This had several causes. For example, QZ was very liberal with respect to moderation policy, and Charmy was very conservative. This led to various clashes. Also, their personalities simply did not go well together. As time went on and tensions mounted, neither was particular stable. When I left to help my grandfather, there was no middle ground, no voice of compromise, remaining.

I have myself to blame for the failed administration. After Shane (an old administrator) hijacked the forum, I took charge of all administrative matters. I demoted all inactive staff (most of them), and essentially had only myself remaining. Now, QZ was a well-liked member of the forum, and seemed genuinely concerned for its future. She was also a moderator at the time - you can see in this snapshot that she was a global mod before Shane was banned. Not that I didn't think you would believe me - I just love looking up archived snapshots. I wish that all those posts were preserved...

Anyway, back on topic. I promoted QZ to administrator. Bad idea, my fault. She's a good person and was a good mod, but that didn't qualify her to administrate the forum. That isn't to say that she can't administrate a forum; it's just that her opinions and methods were not a good match for this forum. It is at this point that we come to the greatest irony of this forum's history: QZ herself shortly promoted Charmy to administrator from a single-forum moderator. There was no prior discussion, it just happened. I was a little jarred by the sudden promotion—we didn't need any more staff—but I decided that Charmy would make a good administrator at any rate. And, while it lasted, he did.

When I left, when all Hell broke loose, Charmy took full blame for everything, and the forum was torn to pieces. He was ousted, and QZ remained. Now, I will not claim that QZ should take the blame instead - the pair were mutually incompatible, and neither was more or less guilty than the other for this.

Now, back to this "respect" thing. Charmy's policies were often mirrors of my own, although maybe a little more zealously enforced. The forum respected me as the oldest active member of both the forum and the staff. I recall at one point a few years ago that I suggested that I step down, and the staff objected because I was basically the forum mascot. Reasonable, level-headed, responsible; whether those have ever truly described me or not, that is at least the way I was perceived. I was rarely criticized, for better or for worse. (One reason why EB earned my respect is that he criticized me freely). Was this respect deserved? Iunno, but that's beside point.

So I was not criticized when I exercised my administrative power, even though Charmy was heavily criticized for doing very similar things. The chief difference during the time that I was present was this: Charmy often had the dirty work of censuring the RP crowd, which basically made up a political bloc.

When I returned, the top item on my agenda was to see Charmy repromoted; I believed and still believe that he was treated very unfairly in my absence. I was very dismayed when I realized that he himself had made this impossible. He had become bitter and spiteful, stirring up turmoil and contributing nothing good, and he was no longer fit to administrate the forum. He realized eventually that I was no longer exactly "on his side", but I am not sure whether he realized why this was the case. He came to be probably the first regular member who genuinely and openly disliked me. I had, it would seem, stabbed his back and sold out.

Quote:
There is a golden ratio of mods and users. Depending on the number of threads/posts/forums, there should not be a overbearing mod base. Let's pretend there is a forum with 20 users. 18 of these are daily users. Threads are created at a 5 a day rate, and posts are in a 70-140 rate. That is about ~4-7 posts-per-user a day. If the mods are not commies about rules, there should be no problem with 2 mods out of 20. No mod should be gone from the website. If they do, they lose their modship intill they get back. Mods are not immune to rules.


This would be absolutely true for an active forum. But right now... we haven't had to enforce any rules in months.

Still, you raise a good point. I will formally demote inactive staff immediately.

Edit: Well, I guess there is no staff that hasn't been active in the past thirty days...

Edit 2: Now note that this is naturally, and even intentionally, a one-sided account. It's the story told through my eyes, and therefore only a small, partisan account of the story. I can't profess to know how the other participants remember it, or what I have conveniently omitted.

History is more interesting that way ;)

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:58 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
WeeGee wrote:
EDIT: Cant find it. Does anyone perchance have the old forums with them?


Nope. They're gone :(

But, do you mean "Mazer"?

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Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:59 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
SirVenom wrote:
WeeGee wrote:
EDIT: Cant find it. Does anyone perchance have the old forums with them?


Nope. They're gone :(

But, do you mean "Mazer"?



No. This user was smart and was about 11 years old. Mezerch? He left right before the Flame War broke out. But I very well like that post. While you were gone at your Grandmother's (Or something like that), you probably knew about the anarchy when you came back. This was where my "2 mod" policy came from. I was flamed from mods and I could do nothing. I guess it was for the best that the forum imploded.

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:11 am
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
Melzerh. Bam.

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:16 am
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
SirVenom wrote:
Melzerh. Bam.



That's him.

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:19 am
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
Interesting summary, SirVenom. Thanks for that! I didn't know that full history. I remember coming on board at some point when QZ and Charmy and EB and others were around, but I've lost track of who was admin/mod/whatever at this point. I do remember the time when I was admin, which I realize I was not fit for at that time (which is why I eventually stepped down).

The biggest piece of history I remember is when we decided to restart the forums and erase everything and start over. I can't remember who was staff at the time, but I remember people being in agreement over erasing everything and starting over. So I started the process and people flipped out. Eventually we did go through the reboot and initially I think things worked out.

But I believe SirVenom has been the most level headed and respectable admin on this forum, I've always appreciated that. Not to say anything bad about others, just saying that I respect SirVenom. I remember getting along with QZ for a while, but then I heard from someone (I believe it was Charmy) that QZ was talking smack about me. Who knows if that's true or not, she disappeared after a while. I disagreed with Charmy quite often too, but I don't have any issues with him at the moment.

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:16 am
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
DarkWish wrote:
Interesting summary, SirVenom. Thanks for that! I didn't know that full history. I remember coming on board at some point when QZ and Charmy and EB and others were around, but I've lost track of who was admin/mod/whatever at this point. I do remember the time when I was admin, which I realize I was not fit for at that time (which is why I eventually stepped down).

The biggest piece of history I remember is when we decided to restart the forums and erase everything and start over. I can't remember who was staff at the time, but I remember people being in agreement over erasing everything and starting over. So I started the process and people flipped out. Eventually we did go through the reboot and initially I think things worked out.

But I believe SirVenom has been the most level headed and respectable admin on this forum, I've always appreciated that. Not to say anything bad about others, just saying that I respect SirVenom. I remember getting along with QZ for a while, but then I heard from someone (I believe it was Charmy) that QZ was talking smack about me. Who knows if that's true or not, she disappeared after a while. I disagreed with Charmy quite often too, but I don't have any issues with him at the moment.



Aye. I beileve Hattrick was a Admin at the time. I just wish we had archived the forums.

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:09 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
DarkWish wrote:
I remember getting along with QZ for a while, but then I heard from someone (I believe it was Charmy) that QZ was talking smack about me. Who knows if that's true or not, she disappeared after a while. I disagreed with Charmy quite often too, but I don't have any issues with him at the moment.


Of course Charmy would say I talked smack about any one he could since I wasn't around at the time to say yey or ney about it. :P LOL

I have my reasons for dissapearing & not coming back here. I porbably never will fully return as a full member either. It's not that I couldn't I have the extra time to still post & be active here. I just feel unwelcome here as a member & thus think it's better not to stay where I personally feel that I'm not wanted. This may not be the case; but I feel this way none the less.

At any rate.. I may not have been fit to admin here at the time when I was one; but I did my job as best as I could at the time when it was given to me. I actually have taken responsability for what I did & what was done. SirVenom may not remember it; but I did send him a long appology PM some time ago... I have since learned from the mistakes I made and have grown from them; as with all things we all learn and grow.

It's hard to see how close I once was with SirVenom, JG, & even Charmy.. But then we were all pulled apart over something that seems so trivial now. So for that I opologize to SirVenom & every one here. =/

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:00 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
queenzelda wrote:
DarkWish wrote:
I remember getting along with QZ for a while, but then I heard from someone (I believe it was Charmy) that QZ was talking smack about me. Who knows if that's true or not, she disappeared after a while. I disagreed with Charmy quite often too, but I don't have any issues with him at the moment.


Of course Charmy would say I talked smack about any one he could since I wasn't around at the time to say yey or ney about it. :P LOL

I have my reasons for dissapearing & not coming back here. I porbably never will fully return as a full member either. It's not that I couldn't I have the extra time to still post & be active here. I just feel unwelcome here as a member & thus think it's better not to stay where I personally feel that I'm not wanted. This may not be the case; but I feel this way none the less.

At any rate.. I may not have been fit to admin here at the time when I was one; but I did my job as best as I could at the time when it was given to me. I actually have taken responsability for what I did & what was done. SirVenom may not remember it; but I did send him a long appology PM some time ago... I have since learned from the mistakes I made and have grown from them; as with all things we all learn and grow.

It's hard to see how close I once was with SirVenom, JG, & even Charmy.. But then we were all pulled apart over something that seems so trivial now. So for that I opologize to SirVenom & every one here. =/



You and JG were my favorite members to the end. But now that's in the past. I seem to be seeing more members popping up. Along with 2 hidden members. I won't beg for you to stay, but I think everyone would like to restart and rebuild.

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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
WeeGee wrote:
You and JG were my favorite members to the end. But now that's in the past. I seem to be seeing more members popping up. Along with 2 hidden members. I won't beg for you to stay, but I think everyone would like to restart and rebuild.

Well JG's still here from what I can see; he just isn't as active as he used to be back in the day is all most likely. XD

Well yea of course rebuilding would be a great idea. But at this moment.. I don't even know if it's possible. Still I'll think about it. :3

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:14 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
queenzelda wrote:
WeeGee wrote:
You and JG were my favorite members to the end. But now that's in the past. I seem to be seeing more members popping up. Along with 2 hidden members. I won't beg for you to stay, but I think everyone would like to restart and rebuild.

Well JG's still here from what I can see; he just isn't as active as he used to be back in the day is all most likely. XD

Well yea of course rebuilding would be a great idea. But at this moment.. I don't even know if it's possible. Still I'll think about it. :3


Nice. Noone is asking to bring wiifuse back to it's former self. I would rather have a new, better wiifuse jump from the ashes.

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:20 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
Again, QueenZelda, the problem is not that you could not be a good administrator. Everyone has strong opinions - it just happened that your opinions, as time went on, often clashed with the established culture of the forum. This was not immediate, nor was it for the whole duration. It was mostly brought out through the violent clashes between you and Charmy (which I blame on no one).

I did say, though, that you were probably (for this forum, at least) better suited for a moderator. As a moderator, you weren't expected to provide leadership for the forum, but simply to be part of the community with special responsibilities. As an administrator, you were put immediately at odds with a forum whose culture, by and large, was at odds with your own. That is why you were not a good match for administration here - just like I, for example, would not be a good fit for administration on your RP forums. I am not suited to provide leadership in that sort of environment.

There is nothing in this regard, then, that you need to apologize for.

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:21 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
WeeGee wrote:
Along with 2 hidden members.


... and a zombie.

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:29 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
SirVenom wrote:
Again, QueenZelda, the problem is not that you could not be a good administrator. Everyone has strong opinions - it just happened that your opinions, as time went on, often clashed with the established culture of the forum. This was not immediate, nor was it for the whole duration. It was mostly brought out through the violent clashes between you and Charmy (which I blame on no one).

I did say, though, that you were probably (for this forum, at least) better suited for a moderator. As a moderator, you weren't expected to provide leadership for the forum, but simply to be part of the community with special responsibilities. As an administrator, you were put immediately at odds with a forum whose culture, by and large, was at odds with your own. That is why you were not a good match for administration here - just like I, for example, would not be a good fit for administration on your RP forums. I am not suited to provide leadership in that sort of environment.

There is nothing in this regard, then, that you need to apologize for.



I don't remember the forum being at odds with QZ. I guess it was bottled up. But my god. FOUR YEARS. dang, felt like last week. But I agree. There is no need to apologize.

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:34 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
WeeGee wrote:
But my god. FOUR YEARS. dang, felt like last week.


It does... it's still "new WiiFuse". The forums weren't brown and green anymore :p

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:40 pm
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Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
I remember the green just not the brown part. XD Also thanks for what you guys said I appreciate it. :3

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:55 pm
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Boo
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:50 pm
Posts: 345
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Post Re: To all that are seeing this:
queenzelda wrote:
I remember the green just not the brown part. XD Also thanks for what you guys said I appreciate it. :3



I have the "Classic" format right now. I am keeping it. I love the hand holding the wiimote.

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Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:25 pm
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